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The Grumpy Programmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17319572987248860624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602276025958225846.post-77715990141934262842014-08-26T20:06:49.692-05:002014-08-26T20:06:49.692-05:00We STILL build software like the Wright brothers b...We STILL build software like the Wright brothers built airplanes: Build something, push it off a cliff, watch it crash, then bring it back up to the cliff, fix what broke, and repeat. <br /><br />At least the Wrights didn't have to cope with some idiot project manager to arbitrarily declare it "done." They repeated until they had, indeed, flown (albeit 120 feet!).<br /><br />I'd love to see what a general-purpose programming language you'd design. Today we have a choice: Make all the decisions about the programmers' intent in the compiler (i.e., the program emerges from the first successful compile as a working, testable module) or in some interpreter (i.e., you can write any old slop, and if it passes the crude syntax, semantics and pragmatics are hidden in some interpreter). It seems to me there's a better way.<br /><br />I agree that Lots of Irritating Single Parentheses was a superb language...for a certain class of task.<br />Carol Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07614756604605646347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602276025958225846.post-78544489529606788402014-08-26T19:53:00.085-05:002014-08-26T19:53:00.085-05:00...therefore I start a new comment...
You almost ......therefore I start a new comment...<br /><br />You almost certainly don't need to make a new programming language yourself. The new ones being developed are pretty good. I think what we need right now is to figure out how to allow different languages to talk to each other, or how to convert code between languages. Because the duck tape we have isn't good enough yet.<br /><br />The problem as I see it is that tool developers are going "madly off in all directions", each making little tools that solve one specific problem in one specific language or one specific context. Not many people are looking at the big picture. My project, Loyc (http://loyc.net) is all about the big picture, but it cannot succeed as long as it is a solo job of only one person. But, you know, there is no funding for the big picture. And there is no money in making the ultimate programming language.Qwertiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04595705428290721343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602276025958225846.post-46649173784703686142014-08-26T19:48:03.814-05:002014-08-26T19:48:03.814-05:00Some comments on the list:
(1) "Moore's...Some comments on the list: <br /><br />(1) "Moore's law is an unstoppable force" - nope, it really isn't. Processor speed stopped doubling about 5 years ago and has only increased incrementally since then. This was due to power density getting too high, so while CPUs hit a wall, memory (which is not known for overheating) has continued getting denser and cheaper. We're getting more cores, but I have the impression we're close to a limit. Not fundamental physical limits but limits of the current technology path. <br />(2) Therefore, although programmer time is expensive, it will never be the only consideration. Making dynamic languages that are incapable of high performance is the wrong approach. It is better to make a language that simultaneously enables Rapid Application Development and fast runtime performance.<br />(3) Don't worry, multiple new languages are supporting multithreading better, although we still haven't found many silver bullets.<br />(4) I, too, wonder why networking isn't easier in most languages. Isn't this mostly a library problem, rather than a programming language problem?<br />(5) Even if that's true, OSs still see files as streams; it's hard to paper over that. Besides, hard drives are vastly faster when files are scanned serially. (even SSDs are faster when scanned serially since they read whole blocks at a time.) PL design can't ignore reality.<br />(6) I suppose you want the Wolfram Language, only open source? It's just a question of manpower, I think. Who can afford to build a standard library that provides everything that everyone needs and give it away for free? We'd all like that, and it will happen someday, but without a source of funding, it will be a very slow process.<br />(7) WTF, are you railing against the entire concept of static typing? I specifically prefer statically typed languages because they make me more productive, see #2. C++ static typing sucks, but other languages such as Rust and Nemerle take the pain away.<br />(8) Julia handles operators in a pretty nice way. The right solution involves treating operators as simply normal functions with a different syntax (ex. see LISP sweet expressions, or Haskell). Nemerle solves the problem of language extensibility well with its macro system, but it does not solve every problem. General language extensiblity is a hard problem and people like me will be working on it for years to come.<br />(9) Um... I almost never mix up = and ==, but I do think that every C/C++ compiler ought to warn about "if (x = y)". In case that's really what you meant, you could write "if ((x = y))" to suppress the warning. Most compilers usually do warn about the silly statement "x == y;". The MS C# compiler warns about "if (x == y);" with "possible mistaken empty statement". I have noticed that GCC often has unfriendly output; but while C++ has many flaws, this is a solved problem so I'd blame the compiler and not the language in these cases.<br />(10). Pretty much all the new languages support something along the lines of C#'s Language Integrated Query (LINQ). Unlike SQL they don't do query optimization, but in languages with a LISP-style macro system, you could add that as a library.<br />(11) I have been thinking about that problem myself for some years, and I think it has a close connection to "duck taping things together". It's not uncommon that some simple objects written by different people to perform similar tasks offer the same functionality under different names, e.g. "Length" vs "GetLength". A language that offers a way to map APIs between different human languages can also allow you to map APIs between different English naming schemes. As for a language that allows you to use non-English keywords, my own LES (Loyc Expression Syntax) is kind of interesting since it has no keywords but lets you use any word (of any language) "as if" it were a keyword...<br /><br />Size limit reached...Qwertiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04595705428290721343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602276025958225846.post-26494614091243113892014-08-26T19:27:21.329-05:002014-08-26T19:27:21.329-05:00I know I will sound like just another fanboy but I...I know I will sound like just another fanboy but I will say it anyway. Learn some Erlang or Elixir these languages have real depth.<br /><br />http://www.erlang.org/<br />http://learnyousomeerlang.com/content<br />http://elixir-lang.org/ Eric des Courtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12068965860165661386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602276025958225846.post-83241983539931282502014-08-26T19:25:42.823-05:002014-08-26T19:25:42.823-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Eric des Courtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12068965860165661386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602276025958225846.post-77410651530426680332014-08-26T19:18:34.726-05:002014-08-26T19:18:34.726-05:00Golang is what you seek, sir.Golang is what you seek, sir.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01790686252271356748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602276025958225846.post-36806639846905828782014-08-26T16:33:50.210-05:002014-08-26T16:33:50.210-05:00You may want to try Racket (racket-lang.org); espe...You may want to try Racket (racket-lang.org); especially since you're already familiar with Lisps.Nivreialhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05878851837444187643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602276025958225846.post-41067201411509637532014-08-26T16:29:30.331-05:002014-08-26T16:29:30.331-05:00You might want to check out Julia. I think it doe...You might want to check out Julia. I think it does a pretty good job at 3, 7, 8 and 9. Most of the other complaints have more to do with the ecosystem (and are among the goals of Julia package maintainers) or I didn't really get what you meant.<br /><br />http://julialang.org/FrontRangeGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06321958878058191681noreply@blogger.com